The soul consists of 3 basic aspects:

will, love, and intuition (ability to acquire wisdom);

with a degree of consciousness pervading these.

What carries on beyond one physical life is the degree of developed consciousness, will, love and intuition, along with (a 5th) - developed talents.

These then enter the new life as potentials. We may or may not get to our soul potential in the next personality life. If we do, then we can develop these soul atoms even more. In some people there may be scant residual memories of what the past lives were about, but these really are not too important for soul growth, except in remembering talents and also in basic soul challenges of the past lives. Basically, we must deal with the what we got now, the degree of consciousness, will, love, intuition and peculiar talents, and continue in developing these.

Also important to note is the two-fold soul purpose:

Further Self-Realization (realization of the greater God/Truth/Reality) and Service to humanity/world (being an instrument for the evolution of divine knowing, love, and manifestation of beauty/harmony.

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Souls

Importantly, there are not as many souls as people on earth, because groups of people have the same soul. Souls are distinct unities in themselves, but many different people may share the very same soul. Remember that a soul is certain expanse of divine love and wisdom, that also has some distinct potentials not found in every other soul. But the soul must live through personalities and bodies. Most people (body/personalities) are only aware of their personalities ( their unique body, their mixture of emotions, their thought habits and memories). But groups of people share the same soul. That is, your soul is the very same as some other people's soul, so we could call this a group soul. As we usually pride ourselves on our uniqueness or individuality, this truth has not been well accepted and the more popular teachings emphasize how separate and unique each person is. But hey, I'm not saying you are just like everyone else, just that you are essentially the same as a lot of others. I mean even your personality is very similar to a lot of others, even if you're not exactly typical and of course you probably feel quite unique. But remember that down deep, past the cofused emotions and beliefs and memories, you are really the same as a lot of others, not all but many. But then, what about accountability for our lives and how does this translate into reincarnation? For the most part, soul-groups evolve or de-evolve as a group, so each person either helps expand the consciousness and love, or shrink it. Really, most people carrying the same soul will simply go with the flow, and their next lives will just reflect the same potentials of the group-soul.

Here's the picture -- a group-soul embodies in the material world, through Sue and John and you and many other body-personalities... - it doesn't have to happen all at the same time.. it's just ongoing. Some people of the group may die, new embodiments are born, but the shared soul remains who it is... it never really left and never really changed at all with these deaths and births. The soul only evolves or de-evolves in usually a fairly slow process over time, depending on the experiences and spiritual efforts of its earth vehicles (the personailities in action). Now, it is possible for you or anyone to evolve past your own group; which is like a leap from one zone to another. People in this process will often feel very isolated or lonely or absolutely different from everyone else... for at least awhile, but eventually this personality vehicle stabilizes in another group, hopefully on a higher level. Because of this potential, it is true in a sense that each has potential for being truely unique. But in reality, despite these transitions, no-one is really completely separate-alone as a conscious identity, because in any singular soul-consciousness there are others here on earth who embody the very same consciousness -- they are you in essence but they have different bodies and live different lives. Yet on a deeper experience level, you all share things like deeper feelings and inspirations and love. Not exactly the very same thoughts and emotions, but the same influencing higher feelings or love-consciousness. You don't need to worry about who is of your group and who isn't.. and believe me, this concern can become a problem - which is why this teaching is usually guarded.

The best that you can do is appreciate those with who you feel a special deep brother-sister spiritual connection, not because of what they are but How they are. . The souls are in a hierarchy, which means that a number (unknown for certain) of souls have the same Over-Soul or influential Greater Soul above. In some teachings this is what they mean by a Master or Guide, or Higher soul above yours. This higher soul works to awaken the lower level, and the evolution of a soul is essentially to Realize its higher Identity, to realize the Soul above as one's true self, thus collapsing the previous self-consciousness and emerging anew as a more expansive consciousness. This gets into a teaching that only becomes clearer over meditation and time, and no one way of talking about it is adequate. Rising up to the next level is an accomplishment that few people ever know, but one might say that this is one of the true purposes of our lives. And everytime someone actually rises, like a quantum leap, there is a rising influence rippling through the whole pyramid of souls. Esoterically, when a very high soul rises to the next level, many people of that time have spontaneous awakenings and initiations, and even mass consciousness's will suddenly expand over a short amount of time - these are special times in social history. So each group soul is part of a more expansive group soul within the human pyramid. At the higher levels there may be only one or just a few personality embodiments of a particular soul (a unique expanse of self-conscious love-wisdom), while at the lower levels there will be more people having the same soul.

For example, at the more base level of humanity there are large groups of people of the same group-soul, and these souls will mostly evolve as a group. You can usually know who these are because they tend to be followers of mass movements or trends or fads, and the groups will often disagree about trivial things and fight each other. Yes they will have different personalities, but they'll be basically at the same level of consciousness. The esoteric teachings tell us that 7 is a key to the levels. At the top is the World Guide or Savior, who has manifested in different forms with different names. This Soul is actually the Sun Soul. Then there are seven great souls under the guidance and influence of the Greater One. Then from each of these there are seven again, producing 49. After this, no one seems to know how exactly it breaks up, but my guess is that there are no more than about 10,000 souls in this world, and others say 144,000. Admittedly I don't know and such exactness was not handed down to me by my teachers. But that is a lot of people sharing the same souls. Yet, if the collectivenss of this teaching seems too radical or bothersome, as it does to many, then it can be remembered that each and every single person has the ultimate potential to break out of their collective-soul and spiritually awaken on the next level.. and its also possible to fall down a level. So in this sense it could be said that we are each unique souls, but it still should be remembered that this departure from one's group is pretty rare. And it may be useful to look at this from still another perspective; that each mind (as part of each body-person) is capable of realizing soul-consciousness at various possible levels (and also expressing from one of the levels), and so each of our individual minds stabilizes at some level or another, with the everpresent potential to expand the soul-realization and enter into the next higher level.

One of the questions people ask about reincarnation is how lives are judged and what determines the happenings of the next life. First of all, lives are not determined, as though your life was planned by your soul as either needed experience or as lessons or as punishments/rewards. There are alot of people saying this but its complete nonsense. There is a soul trying to influence your life, trying to guide and sometimes being the better aspect of who you are,. But for the most part, or most usually for most people, the soul has little real influence because it is ignored and the personality-mind is simply unaware of any higher impulses or guidance, being too wrapped up in its own stuff about its pride and its desires materially, etc. In other words, for most people their soul is just a potential that never really gets realized, so it isn't even a factor in their lives - the soul is something that just never happened in their personal story, like sleeping beauty never awakened. Then.. next life is simply another possibility or another chance for this soul to be realized in that new personality-body. Second, there is really no judgement of anything you do, and no fixed consequences except in this world. What you do here, good or bad, is a benifit or trouble for others around you here in this world and in the future here on the planet; but it doesn't have anything to do with your next life and it isn't even any concern for the soul. Your soul is only about consciousness in love and wisdom; it is about the level of your conscious love and wisdom, not about what exactly you do here. And so also with the next life of your soul potential -- it just depends on the level of soul-consciousness, and there isn't any kept record of good and bad deeds. Karma isn't so simple that if you stole twenty times in one life, it would follow that you will be stolen from twenty times in a later life. That is a way to teach karma to young kids, but the truth is more subtle.

The level of heart and mind is what carries on, or the quality of being. And if the quality of your heart is such that you go around stealing or taking too much from others (like a lot of land-lords and business excuses), then this level of quality (or lack of quality) will simply reincarnate again or just carry on... until it awakens to a greater love-wisdom. And if the quality of your heart-being is expansive, loving and has a sense of fairness, then this will carry on. The lower quality-being will usually manifest low or bad deeds, while the higher quality-being will usually manifest higher or better deeds. And those of lower quality will eventually attract lower deeds to them, while higher quality people will more and more attract higher good deeds -- and so rewarded. So don't worry about every little thing you do, since actions are merely effects of certain states of mind and qualities of being. Be concerned with the bigger picture, about how you are in the quality of your heart and mind, for good or less-good actions will usually follow from your state of love-wisdom. (I say "usually" because sometimes our behaviors follow old habits in spite of a good heart and intent; in other words, there is still some struggle between a higher part of ourself that would manifest very good actions if it weren't for the lower part that keeps the old habits -- this is why even high teachers or high souls sometimes fuck up or say/do stupid or harmful things). I've known some very loving and wise beings, but no one ever matches up to my ideal of perfection. But one great teacher said that "expectation" about others will eventually lead to personal disappointment. And sometimes we may hope for some great Guide to lead us, or the great Savior to save our world; but don't hold your breath. Just receive whatever good is given and give as much good as you can, and in your better moments try harder. And often we each have to leave others to make their own mistakes or have their own struggles, and then move on to other opportunities and other paths.

There is often an assumption that what is transcendental and what is immanent are mutually exclusive. Yet the Transcendental Self is immanent as Essence. The transcendental essence remains unaffected by its immanent manifestations and consequences, but it remains immanent as potential inspiration for manifestations. In other words, the essence is potential from the perspective of manifestation, and from the perspective of essence the manifestation is opportunity.

The transcendental often gets absorbed and lost in the thoughts, dreams and events of an individual manifestation. Individual minds contract on certain thoughts or desires, whereby the transcendental essence becomes lost from individual awareness. Then the Essence, the Greater Being, needs to be remembered, and mind again freed from its spell, once again open in the transcendental state of open embrace.

Out of love, comes will and intuition.

Will and intuition must come out of love, in order to be true.

Between

the Subjective Self-Gnosis (God-Self in its Essence)

and the Objective manifestation

(which includes events, behaviors, conversation and emotional expressions)

*is the intermediary world of ideas and mental beliefs*.

This is significant in how the world is known (truths) and significant in how the self relates to world (values), which could false or unrealistic or delusional, or could be true, realistic, practical nurturing.

An idea is always part of a world view, or helps form a world view.

Ideas are theories or propositions or beliefs: propositional truths or values.

(Concepts are meanings or definitions, signified by words)

What are the VALUES needed in education:

Honesty

Caring

Perseverance

Will-to-excellence

Dave, I hear what you have said and feel mutual in its knowing. I like what you said, BEingness that "chose" to share its very BEingness with its creations. How can there not then be love for its manifestations and creations. Yes, that is a true perspective. Yet I would say it somewhat differently, ...that creation (incl. me and you) is BEing manifest in the evolutionary process of Self-realization and degrees and diversities of Self-expression. This world is, and we are, the manifestation of One BEing, though we are in moments along an evolutionary scale of BEcoming.

I agree with Dave in his assertion that in final truth/reality there is but One Being, and thus the personal self and its self concepts of me -- this personality as I -- is not something that will reincarnate. If you could suspend all the social conditioning and all the personal specific stuff about *who I am*, then there would remain an essence of self (and self-knowledge) that is Transpersonal, and if you go even deeper (or eliminate more) then there remains only the eternal Being. In essence it is only the eternal Being that reincarnates.

As Sam says, give up the personal concepts and surrender to the Essential Being which remains after death to all personality concepts. Islam, surrender to The One Who Is Real.

Though there is an esoteric science of Being which delineates various dimensions or planes. As I stated before, there is an evolving and reincarnating soul in its aspects of consciousness, will, love, intuition and talents/abilities, whereby a soul is a unique mixture of evolving degrees of these within the One Being or Supreme Possibility. Details of how these may manifest will depend on the individual life and its circumstances of social and physical influences, and also depend on the mixture/degree of soul.

One can be in thought, and thus free or outside of the body. This can be called the mental plane. But here one could be in delusion or in false ideas.

Delusions and false ideas (untruths) do not carry on beyond death of the body/personality, well.. except through continuance of social beliefs. Only eternal truths have permanance, so if a personal mind knows truths then this mind is more than just personal ...it is an eternal mind.

To complicate things a bit more, our personal minds (and ideas) are part of the world humanity mind which is evolving to the eternal truths/knowing. The degrees of evolution do reincarnate, so you reincarnate somewhere within the overall pyramid of humanity mind in evolution, depending on where in this you left off.

So I feel attune with Kevin, in that it makes sense for something of our personal self to survive, as in what would be the point of all our inner work? I assert that something does go on, which is the evolving soul, and that we can make efforts to be free of temporal stuff and do inner work to develop soul consciousness which will remain to reincarnate. And our own inner and outer life has definite effect on humanity mind and this world, so we can be quite significant in the overall scheme of divine expression.

I do regard my personal life as a value in itself, even though the One Being is essentially the Only Real. This life, this me, is a unique opportunity. An opportunity to Realize BEing and be all that I can be.

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Dave, I enjoyed reading your reply and feel in agreement. You spoke of the *timeless experience* and no-personal perspective. This is very deep, but I rarely achieve this sort of consciousness or non-perspective.

We may have some disagreements though, which are interesting to expolore. Your position is that we are each given a special opportunity in life to investigate the basic human potentials of consciousness, will, love, intuition, and development of certain abilities. I totally agree, it is an opportunity. Yet I am asserting a kind of reincarnation, which i do not think that you accept. It is not a reincarnation of the personality or any specifics of the personal self. Instead, it is a reincarnation of an essential nucleus of ourself - our basic degree of consciousness, will, love, intuition, and even our basic talents (which may be stretching the theory but many will agree with this). In other words, these essential aspects of selfness do carry on into other lives in an organic and evolutionary process through time. Thus, the beginning of a new life does not start from zero, nor does it merely depend on social and physical circumstances; we each come into life with a unique nucleus of potentials, which we must first re-establish and then we can go on to develop these further. So as a process, the self-essentials are not lost at each death. These essentials, parts of the nucleus of soul, are independent of the physical life and so continue as unbroken line in the process, yet the personality specifics do not carry on. The soul and personality are distinguished. And the timeless experiences of a life (the pure Beingness) are food for the soul. Souls are evolving parts (or processes) of the One Being, bringing Divine potential into actualization in the overall Time.

I do not see time as an illusion, but rather as opportunity for manifest Truth and Goodness .... or consciousness, will, love, intuition and talents. And I do not see the person perspective as a fault or illusion; instead it is a limitation (and pretty much unavoidable), though a limitation that can be transcended or a perspective that can be expanded (to be more of the All). The personal perspective has also a valuable function, which is that we each may hold our own views of what is true and good, and so not be merely identical to the views of the world around us, and we can then act upon our own knowing and moral sensitivity to effect the world, and not be mere passive observers.

--merlin

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To ejLight:

I do agree that I am (and you too are) Being what is, or that I am Being. I am just suggesting that there are levels of Knowing this and also a time-process in manifesting better values of this Being. You seem to be suggesting that there is nothing important to consider except that there is Being, or that what is what is.

>>Scary. Who keeps track of this hierarchy ?<<

Why would you assume that any one would have to keep track of it? It is just the way things are: the levels and process of reality.

>>And the only Real choice we have is to BE What-IS.<<

Is this a choice? A choice from what? You are already being what is. The real choice, i suppose, is whether or not you choose to remain what now is or choose to be different from what you is now. Whatever, you will be what is. But you may not be exactly what you were before this moment.

>>Of course we personally survive, we are God's chosen children. And it is God's Will that we remain permanently as we are. <<

Do you really want to remain permanently as you are? Would you not get bored? as others probably are. Even God, if most compassionate, would get bored if you remained the same. Let go, and let it change.

--merlin

--merlin

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ejLight writes:

>>Greetings Sam, you wrote:

->We already are... this-which-is*

> Indeed, this is so. But even we simpletons *know* that. Any fool with half a brain *knows* that. So Talking the Talk is most abundant. Yet, it is in the Walk of such Talk that we ARE What-IS. Talking *about* BEing What-IS and BEing What-IS is not the same thing, though we are programmed to *think* they are. We can prance about town wearing our Superman suit and *think* we are ten feet tall, but when we get home we take the *S* off our chest and look into the Mirror we find that we are really a mess without our make-up on. <<>

Yes, it does seem obvious that *This is what it is* or that *we are being what is*, or *We already are... this-which-is*, I mean, of course this realization is true (maybe even true by definition). Also obvious that I am being; I exist. Also seems obvious that our walk is what is. But here, ejLight implies that the Walk is distinguishable from the Talk, so he must mean that the Walk is something special, not just what everyone naturally does. For me, this brings up a good question. Going along with his kind of talk, the question is what sort of actions, efforts, or inner realizations are significant for a next step in Being. My first thought of what is significant is being conscious. Yet we all believe we are conscious, but we may still be in habitual thought patterns based on the separative ego.

So maybe the significant step is being conscious of One Being, or that there is only One essential Being. This is a significant step, but it does seem to be limited to an intellectual knowing. So we might go even further and actually Feel the One Being, or Feel a Unifying Presence, maybe Feel the Presence of Pervading Love. Another realization (with feeling) would be knowing/feeling that I am One with all life, that we all share in One Being. Further, I might realize that I am the Great Universal Being Itself ...being Self-conscious and manifesting the qualities of Universal Being.

Certainly, Universal Consciousness and manifesting the qualities of Universal Being must be a special virtue, distinguishable from ordinary consciousness and manifestation. Being of Universal consciousness means that we are conscious of the universe as One, and manifesting Universal Being means that we manifest from a universally embracing heart and a will for the universal good. Since Universal Being must have heart for all that It Is and goodwill for all that Is (of Itself).

>>If there is no one to surrender then there can not be

something that can be surrendered.<<

Recognised illusion and separative feeling can be surrendered.

--merlin